tirsdag den 18. september 2012

MANFO og Hate Speech 2: Horer og Molotov Cocktails

Fredelig kritik af feminismen.
Bare rolig, der er en pointe med de to lange indlæg her. Nu skal vi snakke om siderne på SPLCs liste. Lad os kigge på et par af dem, omend der er mange flere skrækkelige eksempler end jeg viser her.

Fidelbogen, ejer af The Counter Feminist, snakker faktisk selv om hate speech:
Feminism is your enemy, and the obligation to treat feminists as fellow human beings is officially waived. They are not fellow human beings, they are ALIENS. Well, at least until they demonstrate that they are, in fact, human.
[...]So let's not hear any crap about so-called "hate speech". You see, there is simply no way that you can resist evil, denounce tyranny, or call pernicious things by their right names, without crossing a fine line into "hate speech" or something very like it. Extremism against a bully is no vice, and since bullies have their own moral economy, you are entitled to pay them in their own coin.
So, you know, det er ikke hate speech hvis man rent faktisk hader feminister. Got it.

Og var kvinder virkelig undertrykte da de ikke kunne stemme? Fidelbogen siger nej:
It annoys me to hear the feminists say that women were "oppressed" because they didn't have the voting franchise in olden days. Excuse me. . . oppressed? [...] I would submit that women's historical lack of voting rights was neither a good thing nor a bad thing. Rather, it was a morally indifferent state of affairs, based on a cultural consensus that was shared by men and women alike in the past.
Our ancestors lived in a very, very different world than we do, and their cultural norms were very, very different from ours, yet undoubtedly befitting to their world -- a world mysterious and unknown to us nowadays. Who are we to judge?
[W]as it really, inherently, such a horrible thing after all, that women could not vote? And WHY was it inherently horrible? Why should it even matter? Did the average woman in those days honestly feel that voting was "all that"?
[...] I believe a case might be constructed that it was a positive good in the context of those times.
Charmetrold ♥

Pierce Harlan skriver på siden The False Rape Society, der er meget optaget af at blæse problemet med falske voldtægtsanklager komplet ud af proportioner og generelt mistænkeliggøre voldtægtsofre:
The results are all too predictable.  Women are having sex more often when they secretly are conflicted about it. We've frequently reported here about the proven gender "regret asymmetry" where young women have much higher levels of after-the-fact regret than men following sexual hook-ups.  Regret too often is transmogrified into feelings of being used, and feeling used too often metamorphoses into false rape claims.
[...] Women are pressured by feminist-inspired norms to make themselves more available to men than ever, but they have also learned that crying rape after-the-fact is a culturally accepted, indeed feminist approved, antidote to sex they feel was too cheaply obtained.  Instead of saying "no" up front, women are retroactively saying "no" -- with false rape claims -- after-the-fact.
Hvad kunne løsningen være? Jo! Kvinder kunne stoppe med at have så meget sex.
One cure is to enhance the value of female sexuality by decreasing the supply and thereby reduce both regret and false rape claims.
Men der er et problem...
That, of course, can never happen in a society where "slut walks" are celebrated as liberating events, where colleges excuse women from underage drinking charges so long as they report they were raped, and where false rape claims are routinely excused and implicitly encouraged. In short, it can never happen in a society that encourages young women to be promiscuous and to then tell rape lies when that promiscuity results in an unfavorable sexual experience.
Puha, det er hårdt at være mand i dag.

Bloggeren MarkyMark er generelt en charmerende mand. I en introduktion til et gæsteindlæg skriver han:
Boys, don't get involved with American women; they're sluts, skanks, and disease ridden whores. Besides, if you marry an American woman, she'll just divorce you and screw you over anyway. Why bother with the bullshit?! Instead, hoist up a cold one, and enjoy the show as these bitter, angry, old slatterns crash and burn-yeah, Baby!
In fact, the next time you hear some bitter, angry, thirtysomething woman complain about being unable to find a man, laugh in her face! Rub the salt in their wounds till they scream bloody murder! Remind them that they wanted their 'empowerment; remind them that a woman needs a man like a fish needs bicycle; remind them that they don't need no stinkin' man. Remind these hags that they got what they said they wanted, so they ought to be happy, right? Or, you could do what EB suggested, and quietly tell them it's not your problem, then walk away.
But, whatever you do, do NOT give them a shoulder to cry on; do not say, "Oh, you poor thing...", because you're just enabling them. These stupid bitches need to be reminded that they made their beds; now they can lie in them and like it.
Hate speech? Niks!

Girlwriteswhat skriver i øvrigt på bloggen A Voice for Men. Den ser ganske fin og organiseret ud, men kigger vi under kategorien Activism finder vi et manifest skrevet af Thomas Ball, en Men's Rights Activist der satte ild til sig selv foran en retsbygning i Keene, New Hampshire (han er lidt af en helt på AVfM), i protest mod hvad han følte var uretfærdig behandling i en sag om penge til sin ekskone.

Her er et par uddrag af manifestet, der i sin originale version også indeholdt anvisninger til at lave bl.a. molotov cocktails. Du ved, til fredelige formål:
[B]oys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. [T]he dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. [...] And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. [...] They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out.
[...]There is no evidence that the police, courts, or government is planning to do anything different in the immediate future. And they will not do anything different until we make it so uncomfortable that they must change. [...] So burn them out. This is too important to be using that touchy- feeling coaching that is so popular with business these days. You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!
Most of the police stations built in New England over the last 20 years are stone or brick. Fortunately, the roofs are still wood. The advantage of fire on the roof is that it is above the sprinklers. But even the sprinklers going off work to our advantage. There is no way they can work in a building with six inches of water.
[...] There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.
[...] I only managed to get the main door of the Cheshire County Courthouse in Keene, NH. I would appreciate it if some of you boys would finish the job for me. They harmed my children. The place is evil. So take it out. [...] If they still do not get the message, then burn down the trailers.
And bring a can of spray paint to these fires. Paint the word COLLABORATORS ( two L’s with an S on the end) on the building before you burn it.
Paul Elam, ejeren af A Voice for Men (det var ham der, hvis han sad i en jury overfor en tydeligt skyldig voldtægtsmand, ville stemme "ikke skyldig"), er en sand ordsmed. Jeg tillader mig at stjæle Manboobz' resumé af teksten, hvor han skriver om feministen Rebecca Watson:
Whores … typical whore … Main Street walking, garden variety anybody’s whore … honest whore. … corporate whore … corporate whores … whorish sexual symmetry … stupid whore … stupid whore … whore … lying whore … whore  … lying whore … whore … lying whore … corporate whore … a lying whore can also be a corporate whore … whoring for the cause … whore … PZ Myers … stupid, lying whore … not just a lying whore who also happens to be a stupid whore … a different subspecies of whore altogether … stupid, lying whore … whore that rigorously abandons intellect, rationale, evidence, decency and compassion, and also fosters much deserved hostility toward themselves … stupid, lying whore … stupid, lying whore … .

Lennart Kiil indrømmede at han ikke havde set den ufatteligt hadefulde video, han postede som "hvordan virkeligheden hænger sammen", ordentligt igennem. Det er tydeligvis også tilfældet her, så Mandfjolset kommer her med lidt public service.

Den video MANFO linker og sympatiserer med er lavet af en kvindehader der mener at hustruvold er i orden. Den omhandler kvindehadende blogs og forsøger at fremstille dem som uskyldige kritikere af feminismen. Det minder faktisk lidt om når MANFO poster artikler med titler som "Måske bør gravide kunne fyres?" og i radioen påstår at MANFOs kritik af feminismen går på dens socialkonstruktivistiske samfundssyn.

Her er pointen: disse sites er ikke blevet klassificeret som hate speech i et forsøg på at censurere dem. De har stadig lov at poste alt det de vil—nu er der bare gjort opmærksom på at deres indhold er hadefuldt. Der er ingen lovgivning der konkret forbyder hate speech. Kan man holde sig fra paragraf 266b og undlade at opfordre til vold, ja, så kan man skrive næsten lige hvad man vil.

Ligeledes er det heller ikke et forsøg på at censurere MANFO når Susanne Staun f.eks. kalder nogle af MANFOs indlæg for hate speech. Det er OBS: Oplysning til Borgerne om Sexisme. Der er ingen der prøver at lukke munden på Danmarks antifeminister, men det betyder ikke at man ikke kan gøre noget.

Hvis Lennart Kiil virkelig er enig med girlwriteswhat, så er det forståeligt at folk forsøger at kategorisere MANFO som hate speech.

Hvis MANFO ikke mener de skriver hate speech, kunne man på redaktionen i det mindste lige foretage noget ordentlig research, så man ikke ved et uheld kommer til at erklære sig enig med nogen der tilskynder hustruvold og mener at opfordringer til terrorisme ikke er hadefuldt.

Måske skal MANFO bare holde sig fra det der med videoer. Det går ikke så godt.

4 kommentarer:

  1. Mandfjols, Girl Writes What har da ikke noget med alt det at gøre. Og indre mindre MANFO.

    Skulle jeg også sætte moderate feminister i båd med typer som Valerie Solanas, der skød tre mænd ned og skrev et manifest, hvor hun opfordrer til folkedrab på mænd.

    Det er en latterlig guilt by association kampagne, du prøver at køre op.

    1. Jeg tror faktisk du har nævnt Valerie Solanas på et tidspunkt ;)

      Girl Writes What er faktisk ret populær i de kredse fordi hun så gennemført har ladt sit eget køn i stikken for at tale om hvor hårdt mænd har det. Vi ser det i en noget mildere grad her i landet hos for eksempel Anne Sophia Hermansen.

      Hun forsøger at vinkle de her blogs som ganske uskyldige sites der uretfærdigt er blevet kaldt for hate sites. Det er helt bevidst, for Girl Writes What ved skam godt hvad der står på dem.

      Problemet opstår når du helt ukritisk deler videoen–især med titlen "Flere feministkritiske blogs karakteriseret som hate speech". Ikke alene er disse blogs noget mere end blot feministkritiske, hele pointen med at radikale feminister er de rigtige hate groups falder til jorden hvis man ved bare lidt om MRA-bevægelsen i USA. Det var noget i samme stil der skete med What Men Know That Women Don't.

    2. Mandfjols, jeg forholdet mig til hvad Girl Writes What siger. Hun er logisk, sammenhængende og giver eksempler. Og faktisk har jeg fundet en endnu bedre video med hende, som jeg snart lægger op.

      I første omgang har jeg dog lagt en lille video op helt specielt til dig. Den er meget, meget ukontroversiel, og jeg regner ikke med at du vil kunne finde noget at udsætte på den.

    3. Puha Lennart, det er noget kvindeundertrykkende griseri, det dér. Den video er forkastelig!

      GWW siger at SPLC uretfærdigt har klassificeret sider som AVfM som hate speech, og at den virkelige hate speech skal findes hos feminismen. Det er jo løgn, for ikke alene er radhub modereret, de sider der findes på SPLCs liste er værre. Sammenhængende, måske. Logisk? Knap så meget.